Healthcare Go-To-Market: Strategies for Success with Ocean Calm's Sagar Patel

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the Oprising Show, and today I have a very special guest with me, my friend, my brother, Sagar Patel. Welcome to the show, Sagar. We've picked up a pleasure and privilege of studying time in the building.

[00:00:31] And Sagar for everyone listening, I want you to give your introduction and your own words. Absolutely. My name is Sagar, I'm the founder and CEO of Ocean Calm Advisory Group, and we provide support and guidance as well as consulting for healthcare and healthcare tech

[00:00:50] startups and small businesses ranging anywhere from a million to 25 million sales. And my background, I think we'll get in about a minute. But another thing I always like to mention is I am very proud to be an American but also my very proud of my Indian heritage.

[00:01:08] So I always like to share that. Great. So let's start with that itself. So Sagar, I know you outside of this part before and so I know that you are the first one

[00:01:20] in your family who was born in America. And I also know you that you are one of the persons who have very strong work ethics and ending energy to work hard. So your father and mother immigrated from India, started their life here. Would you credit

[00:01:40] these qualities to them or end your upbringing? Absolutely. No question about it. I mean to me, there's a few things that don't like the foundation for me. So number one, it starts from me my parents. I've been really lucky we born to them. They're both the youngest

[00:01:58] of six each. Well my father is the one that came to America by himself and they still that work ethic in me. And then also the other things that they introduced me to and exposed me too,

[00:02:11] like going to the temple, growing up with Hindu background. We sometimes forget that those types of things do take a big part in setting that foundation of how do you balance wanting to win but

[00:02:25] wanting to win the right way? And then also another random big deal of no value. So it's martial arts. I was putting a martial arts at a young age. So I did it for five years. No, not very good

[00:02:36] to know this. And so I did that for my second grade, to like seventh grade and that really also taught me a lot. I was a discipline in focus and being very focused on hard work and determination

[00:02:52] courage and having them more accomplished when it comes to business. Nice. And what was it? What specifically was it? What kind of martial arts was it? It's called Kempo and you know it's Japanese

[00:03:07] style. And it's actually like this more focus on self-defense and you know always the goals always avoid fighting in all that stuff, which I wish I took that advice in my younger days. But

[00:03:20] that's basically you know the basis of it. If you do get it in a situation how you define yourself and how you define yourself. Great. The strongest offense is getting the defense right.

[00:03:39] Yeah, so I've always curious how people end up where they do so could you please share how you ended up in healthcare? Sure. So I don't know what it is. I've always had this passion

[00:03:50] for wanting to help patients and as you know, being in the it's like your parents are always pushing you back in their generation to be a doctor right? If not an engineer or something. So when I was

[00:04:04] in school ironically I'd never liked to go or if I get cut it doesn't bother me else to chew up but if you get cut or somebody else I get queasy and so I could never like in lab like cut up a

[00:04:17] frog and I'll let's do up. And so I was like I don't know if I'm cut out to be a doctor but I always wanted to be in the medical field and then when I went to college my dad's one like deal with me was

[00:04:28] hey I'll support you until you're 21 and I don't want you to work and not be focused on school because he didn't have that opportunity to self but I had some major either to be a doctor

[00:04:38] an engineer or computer science and so that's why I chose bioengineering but I chose bioengineering because of two reasons one you see the time was number two in the nation and I've always been

[00:04:50] very competitive playing sports and the second is I always knew I wanted to do business and help here or something but I'm not doing engineering and I find as well do it related to the healthcare

[00:04:58] that was my ignorant 18 year old dog at that time. And then what was your first job in healthcare? Yeah so then when I graduated you know it's funny colleges are really comparing you for the real

[00:05:11] it's all scam holes they're just trying to convince you to go into masters and just keep studying and paying tuition and so we get out of college and I'm like well they're jobs for bioengineers

[00:05:20] and the reality is I'd learn through other older friends and mentors that no no in medical devices there's R&B engineers, manufacturing engineers and quality engineers and so my first job was

[00:05:33] for Boston's I'd to pick as a manufacturing engineer. Nice and then from what we would do is we have to money up and go in the clean room and then manage all of the little processes to

[00:05:46] manufacture 1000 thousand catheters or for me it was a cochlear implant auditory device for deaf children primarily and we oversee all the assembly workers on the lines that are doing one thing in passing down so very very interesting. I had the privilege to spend few years in

[00:06:08] Germany and I had my time going to this you know all manufacturing plants in Germany and you know to monitor their belts for quality and you know that all those chizen and all that processes

[00:06:23] how they seriously follow they show you with the beep they will show how things move on the belt and where it stops so you might need me of giving me a flashback of my time they're in

[00:06:33] factories in Germany that's what so you know like you have spent decades in healthcare world and and one question that I always get especially for people outside of healthcare and they ask like

[00:06:48] is go do market strategies in the world of healthcare it's a different from other industries what's your take on this. Yeah absolutely I mean there's going to be crossover right but the reason why I

[00:07:00] believe healthcare is so different especially in the US and why the US market is so unique is number one it's very fragmented right the industry and there's always chaos which is opportunity

[00:07:15] but I mean even look at just the market and trying to implement a bomb on here years ago and trying to create this universal way of doing healthcare it's super difficult because it's so cumbersome

[00:07:26] and fragmented and then not to mention we have 50 states and there's so many of the regulations across state to state so you know for folks that think it's complicated in Europe having all those countries imagine you come to the states and in healthcare you could have different rules

[00:07:40] and regulations depending on the state as well or different nuances with insurance you know involved the right and the show a lot of time so yeah absolutely that it's very different in in that sense

[00:07:50] and it's highly regulated it's hip-hop involved right so that's why inboundal opinion why it's taken healthcare is so much more time to embrace tech then if you think about like finance and thinking

[00:08:01] think about how long we'll be starting using ATM cards right and how much more additional or banking and finances is something to help you so yeah I do really this quite different. So two things

[00:08:12] here right one is anybody knew who's trying to get into healthcare any any point or stare from for them. Oh for folks that want to get an healthcare number one is please join we need all the

[00:08:26] help we can get it's such a huge market it's recession proof you know in my humble opinion and really like I think it starts with people anything in business I really believe people's

[00:08:36] most important thing and so if you're a good person you've got strong you know you have IQ you also have EQ and interpersonal skills and then also you know you have good character you will succeed

[00:08:47] and then just find the right mentors or people that you can work with that will coach you through it but to me 50% is that the other 50% you know is the function of learning healthcare right

[00:09:00] but that part you can learn I mean I'll give you an example in medical advice sales which I eventually went into from engineering we were hiring top sales people of other industries and then spending

[00:09:11] one to three months training them on spine surgery and brain surgery now they're in the operating room so we would be there with the spine surgeon on the table doing surgery with their entire staff

[00:09:21] and we're outside the several field verbally guiding the surgeon how to use your problem so anybody can join you know if you have the right work ethic and you're looking you were willing to learn there's so much opportunity to my community and would just still say like

[00:09:35] it is to one of those industries to catching up with other industries in terms of tech. Absolutely I mean just either they went to the doctor and we're still writing you know we're still doing paper

[00:09:47] you know like handwritten like forms I don't get it for my annual physical I've been here five years of row same practice why is it not doing oh yeah you know

[00:09:58] Yeah I mean the way I always think is like you know I don't know maybe I live a little bit in a bubble right I always were like wow you know there's some cool things happening tech wise

[00:10:08] all the things happening in the way but it's always a reality check where you go I do give credit to the UPMC Health System here very tech forward beautiful app and to the level that

[00:10:22] I actually check in on the app when I go with the hospital and this is rare right I never went to hospitals in New York for primary care but here these you know

[00:10:33] and cities like tier two cities the hospitals are the one who's doing a lot of PCB and physician you know primary care so it's always interesting but I really think that at least you be in seat very very sweet in everything

[00:10:47] they're built like great experience you want to come back by your PMC That was our if not our number one one of our top centers of excellence for caral stores in basketball so I went from bossy scientific to then stores and I took a national role to actually

[00:11:07] run like manager sales team it was a player cultural of six reps and then also manage the PNL from marketing perspective there's almost like running a little bit start up within a billion dollar company the only reason people don't know about caral stores is they're

[00:11:20] privately owned by the stores and German and so that's why it's not public stock let's try to work with a weak computer and striker and we have the best in the scopes that's quality video

[00:11:31] towers and then we actually started doing all our integration at that time this like in 2009 is when I joined the stores company and in UPMC it was always leading and cutting edge and utilized all of our

[00:11:45] products and tools so I'm not surprised that UPMC is still leading away there they've always been like that's that in a vaccine from so many different levels in terms of implementing technology and

[00:11:55] constantly being in a front end of innovation yeah I mean yeah it surprised me in a good way let's say that when you're very few time you find it but you know they've done a good job so now speaking of your

[00:12:10] you know startup startup career and you have a track record of driving revenue growth for multiple health care startups and leading them to significant evaluations and valuations so could you share some of the key strategies that have been most effective in scaling these companies feel free to

[00:12:29] name them or without naming them up to you. Not so I think it's important that even like my experience across stores though it wasn't a startup that really began my sales leadership kind of

[00:12:45] experience in foundation and so I shared that because we had to take that I basically took over a brand new service line this fine surgery portfolio products that they were selling in Germany and other countries

[00:12:57] and launching it for the US market. I was also super young as in the late 20s and I got very lucky and connected through the US community to even get that interview and it addresses history but

[00:13:09] that world taught me how to launch something from a different country into the US market because the nuances are so different so in their mind I'll give an example to German go to market there the dynamic between engineers and doctors is very different engineers are actually very well

[00:13:26] respected and when they teach a doctor the doctor listens here in the US market physicians are running the show and are the ones where the reps are oh please doctor so what you use is product when

[00:13:38] you trial this etc. So just understanding that dynamic is different but you can just drop a study and say hey look look at the study now I'll use it you know it's a very different like

[00:13:48] EQ that you have to have and then secondly once you understand the user here you we have to re-market our products re-chains of positioning right the marketing and how we approach each of the

[00:14:02] different markets and then also I learned that every market is different and northeast is very different then the customers in Florida for instance or people in Texas or Southern California or on currently or the Northwest like the Bay Area and in the Midwest and then like even within

[00:14:19] that there's submarkets if you have to understand like what drives them to make a decision and so when we go to market perspective that really helped me understand how you create nuances versus trying to do this one-size-fits-all strategy. Now in some instances which later I worked at a

[00:14:36] company you know called patient pot there was more of a one-size-fits-all issue because it was sass is a smaller deal size and we were selling multi-million dollar products to hospital right like the advice we were actually selling a subscription you know to doctors offices and small doctors

[00:14:55] and so that and it being a little bit more of that high transactional just high velocity sales and so that go to markets and be a little bit different then fast forward when I was at on or

[00:15:06] and it was again a completed model partnering with local home care agency owners and doing multi-million dollar deals and in games again in a very complex almost like an M&A revenue share model

[00:15:18] and so that again has a completely different go to market strategy and oftentimes people want to just like kind of jump on the buzzwords and apply this oh we need a critical create a repeatable

[00:15:29] scale a little sales model sure we know that but if everybody knew that then we would only have one-to-kind of start of succeeding right the hard part is figuring out how you create that sales motion

[00:15:38] for that specific scenario and so what we had to do in honor was hey the the STRs that we're using in sass does not apply for that scenario we had to completely create a whole new

[00:15:49] job role function and look for different skill sets to do the lead generation so these are kind of different go to market strategies depending on what type of product you're selling and services you're providing within healthcare but that's always I think I found very fascinating is that

[00:16:06] I've had the privilege of working almost every sub-sector of healthcare and so doing that it humbles you and makes you realize like every scenario is weak and you have to like figure out what's the custom you know solution that you can pull from other experiences but

[00:16:20] how do you create a custom solution for that particular instance I'm gonna go to market from from from this perspective right like it's getting very difficult for it was always difficult and healthcare to reach for market market years to reach to

[00:16:38] their target audience and now it's got anyone worse and the money is not that cheap so everybody wants to do it more efficiently without spending dollars and what is that what is that

[00:16:51] what is that takes in sales today to to get to you know get your foot inside the door and get in connect with the real prospect especially in this word yeah so that's a great

[00:17:02] question and actually you and I had experience working together on this very specific challenge right the other problem is the customers we're dealing with in the healthcare and health tech vertical they're not always professional violence right so they don't even know

[00:17:18] how to purchase this when you're doing b to b like I worked at IBM when I switched to tech for two years and my peers who were I wasn't a healthcare vertical but my peers who were

[00:17:30] working with let's say finance banking or other vertical industries where they know oh this is a sales process and this is how you go through that enterprise sales process they understand that that's where it takes to create a transaction right a lot of times these physicians they're not

[00:17:47] training business so they don't understand like how do you even purchase something like that becomes the number one challenge and so that I think is a big understanding of like okay how do you

[00:17:57] understand your customer because that's where it begins and then number two how do you get through the gatekeepers they have such a different style of gatekeepers especially in these practices right in hospitals they're they're paid to not let you in their job is to make sure the positions

[00:18:14] are focused on patient care which they should be but they're not also trained or at that level right a business acumen to realize oh once in a blue moon if there's something in

[00:18:26] nursing comes I may want to bring this to zone so's attention and they might actually get credit for it because normally you're getting you know in trouble or distracting them and so how do

[00:18:35] you get past the gatekeeper how do you educate right the end users on what they need for their practice which they not even know and so I think those are the key factors and you know the

[00:18:47] greatest examples of us to where I encourage trying to get things off the ground from zero to you know if you really enough for sure we had to get creative and how we get through to the customer

[00:18:58] and educate them and get them in time student take a meeting but that's the challenge these are not professional buyers of what we were typically selling or what are you doing yeah yeah I mean I

[00:19:11] did go out of to try the other one right I did become you know VP of marketing for this company enterprise software global solution right and clients were sales force 80 and TB companies right

[00:19:25] in Europe and America and I tell you I did like really big initiatives there it's like even like the rebrand and all that stuff completely changing company name repositioning starting a

[00:19:35] subcategory but I felt it was way, way, way easier. It felt like it's easier to build all this buzz like you know you talk about marketing world like build communities it was way easier like

[00:19:49] build a community around it and much easier and those people are like people on desk jobs like you know it's different so way different in that side of the world so it certainly is a beast

[00:20:00] like in health care and I always say and I used to and I've been saying this from the very beginning I think there are two things that I say one is like from investors side I think

[00:20:11] you have to have a heart like to understand in health care like you can't have the same margins in home care versus you're doing sats so if you are in investor who comes from air

[00:20:22] you're the wrong investor right like clearly you're not going to be helpful because home care margins are not there and also if you think that it's like this layer in health care like you start with

[00:20:32] you know these tech solutions there's like medicaid related solution then they are private practice solution and then they are home care solutions and all have different margins right so I think that's their one thing and second thing I feel like in health care especially

[00:20:50] sales and in marketing I think it's much much closer that teams have to work really really together if you need to get to the conversations with your buyers otherwise any others you can still

[00:21:05] do your own siloed things and it might still work but here the game is like really how you orchestrate together yeah I just want to hear you at thought of the second point what's that

[00:21:20] I want to hear you thoughts on the second one yeah I can't agree with you more and actually shout out to you be one of the best partners that have in terms of like a sales and marketing

[00:21:29] partnership and that's why to me I see that as a growth in health care you have to look at it as growth as a total solution where you have your sales on and then you have the marketing arm that's

[00:21:39] supporting the sales to not this marketing versus sales it's got to be like handed hand and realizing like hey the goals to generate revenue and grow the business and how are we going to support each other

[00:21:51] right and then you have your revenue operations you have you know the branding team supporting it but again the goal that I've seen in health care in a cancery brother industries is that it's usually

[00:22:02] sales driven and you have to look at it as a growth team where all the other functions are supporting the sales team to get from point eight of point B in generate revenue and yeah you have to really

[00:22:15] be one unit I can't agree with you on that that's and I've seen companies fail because of that because they're all working in silos and now with technology you're getting worse people don't realize that like yes tech is great for efficiency but to innovate not being able to

[00:22:31] fluid interaction I think what many times we were hit with the problem or challenge getting into like a large practice and we would just be in the office late hours just whiteboarding and

[00:22:41] like collaborating and we may not know what solution we're trying to build or what the end result of this meeting is going to be but we knew what the challenge was and all of us had different

[00:22:50] perspective and the goal is to bring all of our 360 expertise together to formulate a solution and move all of us in one direction that to me is the beauty of collaboration and that's what's needed especially in health care where you're solving such complex problems in a fragmented

[00:23:09] market where you need also a heart you have to have heart hustle and humility and health care to succeed it's not just like like you were saying like other industries like finance or real estate

[00:23:20] you know where you're just that's all the knowledge and sense each can do that it's not sustainable yes okay talking about tactics right so is there any one thing that you have from your

[00:23:31] memory that you were like dude this was a total hack and it worked anything any story oh man there's so many yeah I like that so to me that's scrappy stuff

[00:23:43] is with the fun stuff I think that you get the test out and startups this is why you know I love supporting small business and startups I worked in all sides companies and the the smaller you

[00:23:54] know when you roll your sleeves up that's the fun and so that's where all these tactics work and I what am I gonna attack is actually was attacking with you with the LinkedIn right where you have

[00:24:04] multiple people adding on LinkedIn and communicating them and building a story for them through education and then letting them discover oh this is interesting like I want to learn a versus trying to tell them

[00:24:18] hey you're here to sell you some I letting them kind of climb you I thought that was a cool tactic that we did where we'd have the marketing people plant the sea and then then have

[00:24:27] and then they created them to want to then speak with you know the sales force so that's yeah I always remember this one way cheeky one in the earlier days and but earlierly days when I was

[00:24:41] getting startups it was like especially the US when I moved from Germany to US and you know you have those email lists right and we were using Mailchimp and Mailchimp has like when anybody unsubscribe

[00:24:55] from the email it used to show them the list name and so I intentionally thought about this step like hey I'm gonna do this email blast to physicians they're not gonna like it and they're gonna hit

[00:25:06] unsubscribe and then I lit I intentionally named the list as top physicians of America and I literally got responses back from a couple of people saying that hey that was a mistake

[00:25:18] I want to be in this list can you put me back? I don't want to unsubscribe so I was like wow you know like it's it's it's it's just a funny story because there's a people weren't thinking completely

[00:25:31] I've seen that list and you will see like outreach list that's what people were putting and I was like this is so missed opportunity I always thought like oh and then it got

[00:25:40] when I got the result I was like you know what this is really where you need to think through the all entire touch points right like that's how you do it and I also had a group on LinkedIn

[00:25:50] which you were saying which I think I still have it top doctors of America and it still has 300 physicians in it. So it's fun I like it in that way but I also started to see now

[00:26:07] there's a lot of physicians on LinkedIn I actually get these outreach either who says what is doing for them like a dentist you want a dental appointment or LinkedIn to me or there is like

[00:26:22] direct primary care physician who's doing this which is I appreciate the effort this is awesome but you know how the tables are turning like the physicians are moving towards like this is the market everybody's on LinkedIn now trying to use that as a channel so

[00:26:38] have you seen something what's your take on this have you seen physicians going in this direction. Yeah remember the demographic getting older right so now the younger the younger audience of physicians like my brother-in-law like a lot of my friends like

[00:26:53] half my friends are physicians I'm married to physicians and they're on LinkedIn they're on Instagram and other social media channels so yeah I absolutely see that and that's part of the reason like our tactics are always gonna evolve right like tactics that worked in the

[00:27:07] early 2000s or then 2010 whatever they're gonna have to come to you evolve because the world is in static it's dynamic it's constantly changing and so we have to keep adjusting our tactics but the beauty is when you how at least cool tactic we use in the past those

[00:27:23] experiences what helps us to then formulate new ones to test out but you have to have like guts to test those out so I like that yeah like I like that one you telling me that's funny

[00:27:34] that's funny another one that I use that you just kind of remind me of is then now see I do believe that you have to be very self-aware of yourself and so attacking I've used

[00:27:47] when I was fresh out of college versus late 20s versus a early 30s new in management versus now right at 40 it it it evolves and so you have to know how you present yourself

[00:28:00] to the audience and how they perceive you to use that tactic so oftentimes if I need it a message to come from somebody else I would have a couple of videos it's not about the ego

[00:28:10] like oh I want to be able to say I could take something and someone else you say something and it might not completely do different means so I think that was an important tactic I

[00:28:18] always deployed but as a recent you know I I go in and I just I'm very straight up nowadays where I just keep on keep 100 you know like this is what I'm going to do and here to help with this

[00:28:30] you know it would be a good idea to not you know have a conversation and that's it yeah I think it's that's how it is right like this is it's it's interesting like also I always

[00:28:45] relate a lot of people in like in B2B world especially outside of healthcare this like always just like let's bake this big email tell like a story and all that that doesn't work in healthcare

[00:28:57] nobody has time like literally they're like on their phone in their lunch break so whenever they're checking their phone the message needs to be like what you want to tell straight up otherwise

[00:29:08] you forget about like you will ever get to right so that's one thing it's like very very much like people needs to like think in healthcare world which is great exercise anyway for market here

[00:29:18] salesperson yeah so I really like that and you have cut all the crap out of that it just goes through the point yeah that might evolve too right but your brain now the trend has been that

[00:29:31] and that's been the thing that I think people are it's the same thing as like LinkedIn became all about like finding but then you looked at the last two years there's so much garbage now

[00:29:41] of like I mean something on LinkedIn so now that's started to create you know what you call people become immune to that and they don't want to yeah there are inbox on me I have

[00:29:51] sometimes other things you know right this is not important messages some party would like you're 15 to 20 you know yeah yeah so you know you have provided guidance to several startups and SMB owners especially so what common pitfalls should new entrepreneurs in healthcare and founders

[00:30:11] especially be aware of and how can but how can they avoid them the number one biggest one I always see now is people just hiring and hiring and currently I cannot emphasize enough that 1% of startups will succeed it may be another 4% will get to certain levels of success

[00:30:32] at this speed so you see but 95 are just they're not gonna make it and a lot of my individual fraudulent like they're both a zoon but who might a judge you're trying great good for you

[00:30:42] but to get that 1% you have to have so many things working your favor and the last thing you want to do is shoot yourself in the foot and I see this all the time which is you have to be

[00:30:53] self aware of knowing what type of talent can you realistically attract and then work to get the highest level of talent that you could possibly attract like in terms of like an A level

[00:31:07] player for that position and then the higher that position is role is the more important you should invest in spending extra dollars to get that any point versus being cheap because your most

[00:31:18] expensive line out of the P&L is typically going to be your people and so that's where you should invest your money if you're trying to cut corn so again I see oftentimes people hire it indirectly

[00:31:30] and the end though you know when your behind goes north with your team you're gonna think gold is the best product ever but until you get out of the market you see if customers actually

[00:31:40] want to buy and you go to the challenges of getting it across the table you're not going to truly know and so what happens is he will build this beautiful excel sheet and say hey if we hire

[00:31:50] three headcount in this that it'll equal x amount of sales that you doesn't work. If you don't hire the right people and that it's going to work so I think the most important you know

[00:32:00] being in what the the people I see is just people hiring correctly and then once they hired directly spend time you know trained them to some or lack of and then what ends up happening is

[00:32:12] when that person doesn't ramp up now they either hope and pray that they somehow will turn around they just keep dragging their feet until they let them go a year or two later

[00:32:22] or they let them go and now you're back to square one 90 once for once later and then you lost opportunity months right so yeah yeah very valid point and also I think there is

[00:32:34] of one thing that right like few years ago you know there were not many resources available people will talk the founder can talk to another founder just do the same thing and it might work but

[00:32:44] not anymore right it doesn't work this way and hiding is a very expensive mistake it's like you can like it just waste of time and money both right it's like you're putting yourself six

[00:32:56] months behind so one thing that has happened and especially in last post-COVID is like a lot of experts and then this is not just healthcare every industry especially good market experts who are working for companies they have built their own advisory groups and you know all those things

[00:33:16] has happened so I think those resources are available now but I think the founders are still lagging behind in thinking they need to start taking advantage of these specialists in the market

[00:33:29] and that's not happening right now and I think that's a big problem I think we're still playing catch up here because they still think that our in-house is maybe yeah they will charge

[00:33:37] me more money and but in this like a like a rude awakening waiting for them it's that's how it is I'm actually glad you pointed out I couldn't agree with you more that you have to think about two things

[00:33:50] number one you think about what is your specialty or your secret sauce in your strongest one or two with the assets right if you as a founder are not good at evaluating people and talent specifically

[00:34:04] let's say for sales and for marketing maybe you have never done it or built teams then how are you going to know what good looks like you're now forecasting right your your your your playing

[00:34:14] probabilities and you're gambling in your decision making right also when you hire these recruiters within whether they're an injury or a start up and you're thinking about okay what's the level talent what are my things recruiters because you go to pay for it right or you're hiring these

[00:34:29] outside firms how how do you know they can guarantee you success like what is their tractor records right if you look for actual people who operate it and then not only are they operators

[00:34:42] but they have a track or a very low turnover of building teams with low turnover then you can tell that okay this person actually has the skills that to help you hire and so I truly believe in

[00:34:52] partnering I think partnership when done the right way not just the cheesy partner but like actually like partnering with people with anything and everything in your life is so important because

[00:35:02] we're 20% of the day I know exactly how good I also know what I'm not so I'm the partner with smartest people or what they do really well so it wouldn't with real estate I can't be an expert in help

[00:35:13] here tech and then sales and also need expert real estate what do I do then I make sure I find the best realtor like trust of no one for years and it's shown me a pattern that they've been so successful

[00:35:25] with all their customers and not personnel I rely on and and do my investments through them same thing with like stocks right I'm not time to like be the best stock trader while doing all of your

[00:35:36] stuff so I believe in paying the right answer why not pay a close colleague friend of mine done this for his entire life is really good at it and it has some management company so

[00:35:47] this is what the same thing when you're running your company as a founder you better figure out what you're doing and then the things you are you got to partner with the best people and

[00:35:55] people you get what you pay for because if you click orders you just need back as where one that's the party that they don't get is you look everything is a cost not an investment

[00:36:03] you don't know the difference yeah and you know with ocean come you aim to address gaps in the GTM Mark GTM talent for startups and small businesses so what inspired this focus and how do

[00:36:19] you ensure that clients achieve sustainable growth yeah I so I love people I truly like being around people I get energy and I hide myself on surrounding myself with not good not great but exceptional

[00:36:38] like eight players in what they do and so when I vouch for somebody it's a big deal I don't go around and just say oh yeah I refer to this refer to that that's my word my reputation

[00:36:52] our company on the line and so this is why I truly enjoy seeing people succeed whether it's on our on our team or if you play somebody somewhere I love when I introduce a good friend or

[00:37:07] expole in the mind to another person maybe come this is partners and after well before like man every time you introduce me to somebody it's they're always second and none of the amazing

[00:37:17] that's what I find enjoyment and I get energy out of that so that's the reason why I do what I do when it comes to the people and I just think that I also have a different methods my madness

[00:37:30] I I'm not sitting there doing what everybody else does I can't tell you how many times I've spoken to like recruiting firms, search firms and they all sound like the same robot asking

[00:37:40] same questions and the same old thing and again you have to look at yourself if you apply the same best practice is for everybody else then how are you gonna be number one right maybe 80% 90%

[00:37:52] you should follow best practices pretend to 20% of what you do you've got to figure out what you're going to what's we're going to do differently to put you at the very top and that's what we've done

[00:38:01] in every single place that I worked at or that I partnered with and we do our businesses we have to always make up that that we know or we've cracked that code to figure out what's

[00:38:11] going to work in this scenario and so same thing when it comes to people that to me of business starts and then do people and that's why I'm so passionate about it is that if you get the people right

[00:38:21] you will succeed right if you get not good not very but exceptional people at the table they will figure it out even if it's an okay product don't fix it and I see people were not exceptional

[00:38:32] mess up a really good product or service so that's why I'm passionate about it and how I help my customers are doing my partners address this and and how do you plan to expand this impact

[00:38:50] in on on these companies and healthcare and tech sectors and this is more like looking ahead to me think of your major goals for the next few years but yeah I guess personally and professionally

[00:39:03] sure so the thing that I really I don't want to be pivoted but adjusted about a year and a half ago was being extremely intentional about doing what we would so it's important to to work with quality

[00:39:18] over quantity of customers and I would much rather do a really phenomenal job with people that are that are coachable right and we all have to go to a lot I promise of them being coachable every

[00:39:31] single day all aspects of life and so people who are coachable actually wants to learn and put in the work number two people with high care that they put the business above their selfish and that's not

[00:39:41] easy you get be wired that way and be more caregiver than it's a good and that's where you have that abundance mindset type of people versus scarce and you need to look at things as an investment

[00:39:51] not a cost and then number three people they're also enjoyable to work with that time is the currency and I've dealt with a lot of you know, A-holes in the New York markets and so I call

[00:40:00] for ya the bank I can do it I just don't want to be more like so I rather help good people and that's where I've been very intentional about building a new book of business of people within

[00:40:12] buying at work or people that I trust who vouch for other kind of raising people who I may not know so that's number one that we've been doing is working with people intentionally then number two

[00:40:24] building a team of folks that are ways smarter than I am from all parts of the growth platform right sales marketing branding, revenue operations recruiting everything so that we can truly be an extension

[00:40:38] of a growth leadership team or our customers versus just having solo consultants come and go we actually provide an entire group of a brain of brain power right for our customers and so now

[00:40:51] these small businesses can't afford to hire three-a-level VPs can get that type of support right at a much more reasonable right you know economics and then the third component is expanding to other countries especially in places that I have either a personal connection with like India

[00:41:13] a speak Indian to drop the and Amdabhad with my home town is as the booming with startups Mumbai of course has been and so in these smart kids we have connections now offering to reach out

[00:41:24] and see if they're creative ways of helping those companies in whatever format and helping them succeed and then also in Latin America ice-free Spanish I need to get better but now I've been invited

[00:41:36] show a few weeks ago for a lot of noton health tag and there's other organizations that are connected with so that's another piece is that these types of countries that need help with growth but there's what for their health tech businesses and all more importantly want to

[00:41:51] maybe extend the US market which is always most these companies goals that we can now make that bullet proof versus them trying to do this and not understanding the market place and then finally

[00:42:02] the final piece kind of spoiler alert is that by the end of this year I will be launching a fund medal in managing because my long-term goal is to purely just in the landbass and I've been

[00:42:17] doing so you know on a much smaller scale personally but now with having so many amazing people in that we're that trust me the way the same way I trust them you know they're going to

[00:42:26] be able to take whatever they trust me when it comes to investing and startups within healthcare tech sector so now I'm going to build a fund for people that are in my circles to then invest

[00:42:39] and actually be able to have opportunities to invest in it from an angel perspective and that's something I always wanted you to have access to and now that I do I want to open up

[00:42:49] that open that up my people and though and that fund will also be part of possibly our customers so there are customers that we end up working with and after learning their business for 90 to

[00:43:00] 180 days and we see the hey this is a great company and not only are we helping the company we want to invest in it that's a great way to start with the consulting group and then invest later on

[00:43:10] a line as well and that's that was coming with you what we're doing here at Oceanfall. Fantastic and is it is a you finding it I mean the market is still you know it's very very like you know

[00:43:27] how money is no more the way it used to be and are you finding it difficult in a way like the conversations at more you know it's taking more time it's just like more convincing and there

[00:43:39] is more reservations from the side of founders and what's what's your take on that what's what advice would you give especially to the founders of the listening sure I knew this come in

[00:43:50] into 2024 I was expecting this evening last year that this is going to be a weird mirror and from so many of our angles I have new lecture you got inflation you've got money you know drying up

[00:44:04] right but regardless of all that I always believe in survival of this whether it's a bull market or bear market if you're a winner you're going to win so I just become a lot more adamant of

[00:44:17] saying no and not wasting my team or myself's time with people that are just how the scarcity mindset and I try to explain to them I understand that if the money is tight for all of us

[00:44:28] but you still got to figure out then where to spend you got to spend it wisely and don't be pennywise pound foolish either though and so now if the money is tight that means you better get

[00:44:38] your highest profit you better have the right people at the table to help you build the right strategy and then you better have the right people the table who are going to get execute the strategy

[00:44:49] only harder you need to have the people the strategy and execution execution of the hardest part and so and if you have a team of not good not great but exceptional people were like work out

[00:45:00] they can just a little lentless like us then you will figure out a way in succeed if there's a pattern if you look at people like our history so but that's the part is I think the founders are still

[00:45:11] hesitant and wanting things for free and I always tell people you get what you pay for so if you pay somebody happen what they probably should make then do you think that when push

[00:45:20] them to shove and you only have three girls and they're going to spend that extra time on your business versus someone else's paying double that's all I always think about right I was going

[00:45:27] to put myself into shooting you the person that's why I don't like to shortchange people that I for other services right if I cut somebody out and in shortchains under the GMO hotel or like

[00:45:39] you know a real term or whatever right then when they have three things to do and only have time you know but they have five people asking for help give you going to help the other two people

[00:45:49] that are getting it for free no they're not time to we got a first take care of the people that are paying them so you as a founder to think about that right you get what you pay for

[00:45:56] and I don't know I believe that people is the most important thing to spend money on yeah that's very well put and also the important point is like when things are tough you

[00:46:07] certainly want to get the right things right you want the right people in the right places and that's that's that's very easy to forget in these situations so that's great wow it was great and

[00:46:19] I like to end the show with kind of like a personal question so it's like I ask everyone that tell me about a personal thing that no one in your professional circles knows about this

[00:46:34] and this is your chance to share with them could be anything that you like to share so onto you there's quite a few juicy things I'm kind of thinking about what what I can share in this episode something like that you know or you don't know

[00:46:54] I don't have to do it and this is your chance could be anything okay so this is something I hate from a lot of people but I was a bit of a I'm still in you know deep down

[00:47:10] but I was a bit of a gear gov and the first you know ignorant purchase I made after a graduated out of college that was an engineer was actually a bottomwinter's I think so I had a sports

[00:47:22] money I read on the CDR 600 for two years and you know I hit it for my family my parents I know idea they would have been so many and in the end I'm getting you know like snagged in LA

[00:47:38] and then actually ironically my boys like my close friends all my buddies from college with a one to maybe promise that we get another one because not safe out here especially for the

[00:47:50] California but yeah I was a bit ignorant I had this and I still did this day when I see this sports break drive-by because you were at the CDR I miss I miss the motorcycling

[00:48:03] that's funny so no one knew it in your family and do they know now even to this company they found out like I think when I was like moving to New York like I just

[00:48:13] ended up telling them I remember moving like what I was 30 30 and something came up now hey by the way I said more something my bad that's funny that's funny and the

[00:48:29] bear can people find you if they want to hit you up so a bunch of places obviously there's our website ocean calm dot CO and O C E A N C A L M dot CO ocean calm and then also we have a YouTube channel

[00:48:49] so if you look it out it's ocean calm 0 1 is our YouTube channel we also on LinkedIn ocean calm 0 1 or LinkedIn handle I have my personal LinkedIn as well you can also find that a lot of

[00:49:01] information on and then we're also on Instagram both my personal Instagram and then side of the thousand zero one and ocean calm 0 so and we're going to continue to put more content out hopefully

[00:49:13] have more folks learn not us or people from our past life you know get me connected to us that's the goal of the content right if we can help even just a handful people then it's worth the

[00:49:23] time well you heard it folks how to find soccer and this was great thank you so much for your time and thank you everyone who is listening to this episode from wherever they are and if you are a

[00:49:39] founder especially at least a hashtag startup and help take you know whom to reach out and I'm sure soccer will find a way to make sure you scale as fast as any of his companies has done

[00:49:51] the past so thank you soccer much appreciate it we made maybe someone go ahead miss you and I appreciate